achse?

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pinzi
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achse?

Beitrag von pinzi » So Mai 01, 2016 8:59

So i had contact with s-tec and the send me the invoice for the parts....strange thing is That the parts numbers are the same as the parts from the 710/712 pinzgauers....so i was wondering if the axles from a 710 and 716 (p80) can be the same
Dous some one know if it is possible tot put the ones from a 710 under a 716, only the diffs with the half axles :?:
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Steyr-Daimler-Puch Crack
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Re: achse?

Beitrag von Steyr-Daimler-Puch Crack » So Mai 01, 2016 10:05

2-3 Points are different between Petrol and TD P80-P90:

1. The half axles http://www.puch.at/3085_Vorderachskoerper.aspx?LNG=de Pos 2 are longer( 40 mm wider Wheeltrack) ( 3 different bearing looking typs were over the years available, outside diameters the same)

2. the case is only different in output openings at half axle sealing, at the petrol was the sealing of the half bullet inside of a separate Unit http://www.puch.at/2777_Hinterachskoerper.aspx?LNG=de position 11 and the sealing boot was mount on it. The TD had a stronger case, a case with a included sealing mount ring for the rubber boot

3. like your axle building date, number and modifing some Petrol axles are Up-Graded to " Extec2" called, this are the TD Parts. it´s upgraded to swiming bushes on the differntial bolts . Factory change for Petrol Pinzgauer Axle drives start from M23125

pinzi
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Re: achse?

Beitrag von pinzi » So Mai 01, 2016 15:24

Ok this helps a bit....thank you :wink:
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hd_70
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Re: achse?

Beitrag von hd_70 » So Jun 16, 2019 19:15

Question....is there a diference between the 4x4 and 6x6 gearing ( ubersetzung) or is the diference in the hi/lo case. The info i fond is That the 6x6 has a topspeed of 110/ 115 km/u and the 4x4 should do 120 km/u easy.....so i want to know where the diference between the 2 is..... what i also want to know is if you go 120 km/u with the 4x4 ( 716 p80/p90 or p93 ) at what rpms is the engine running , and is there a diference between the automatic and the Manuel gearbox ? Thank you :wink:

Steyr-Daimler-Puch Crack
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Re: achse?

Beitrag von Steyr-Daimler-Puch Crack » So Jun 16, 2019 20:42

there are no different radiation at the TD´s between 4by4 or 6by6, there was 4 upgrades at usual 2 Speed box , one -12% and one -24% Gearbox in small produced units available.

only Petrol Version had different gears and cases between 4x4 and 6x6.

the Top Speed ( V-MAX) is limited by engine power, tyre-typ, drag coefficient, outside temperature, road condition and on . Hi-Speed means high engine rpm. at 130km/h the engine runns at 4200 u/min. the Pinz is not made for high-speed highway use, the comfort driving speed is at round 120km/h. All over this speed the hole Vehice crys, the noises are groving up awfull at uppering each higher speed, the themeratures in all gears and Steering groving enormos and the driving stability is ultra sensible- after a few kilometers you slow down your-own , because you are high concetrated at holding the car in line ( side wind blast, wind blast from faster cars or passing slower trucks), swimming driving, high unknown noises, tunnel view and sweeting fingers.

there are no differents at high rpm between auto and mechanic gearbox because the autobox has a converter lockup clutch.


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Lorenz
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Re: achse?

Beitrag von Lorenz » So Jun 16, 2019 21:03

There is a ZF Number in the housing of the transfer case.
I think it's like this (but not sure, I will check tomorrow), the 2 last Numbers: - 60 (old standard Ratio)
- 64 (-12% Ratio)
- 66 (newer version with standard ratio)
SDP-Crack? Is that correct? I'm not in the office and don't have my folders :-).

The best tire size for every day use if you don't go in deep mud too often is: 255/85R16.
It works fine with the standard ratio. If you have a heavy, loaden 718 the -12% Ratio might be better, or a slightly tuned engine or conversation to VW 5 Cylinder.

hd_70
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Re: achse?

Beitrag von hd_70 » Mo Jun 17, 2019 6:54

What i have found: Schaltgetriebe 5 gang ZF S5 -18/3
1: 4,25
2: 2.505
3: 1.48
4: 1.0
5: 0,747
Retourgang : 4,03

Automatikgetriebe 4 gang ZF 4 HP- 22
1: 2,73
2: 1,56
3: 1,0
4: 0,73
Retourgang : 2,09

Verteilergetriebe : Ausfuhrung A (4x4 und 6x6) 2 gang vollsyncronisiert

Strase : 1,061
Gelande : 2,452

Ausfuhrung B ( wahlweise fur 6x6 )

Strase : 1,188
Gelande : 2,746

hd_70
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Re: achse?

Beitrag von hd_70 » Mo Jun 17, 2019 7:17

Steyr-Daimler-Puch Crack hat geschrieben:
So Jun 16, 2019 20:42
there are no different radiation at the TD´s between 4by4 or 6by6, there was 4 upgrades at usual 2 Speed box , one -12% and one -24% Gearbox in small produced units available.

only Petrol Version had different gears and cases between 4x4 and 6x6.

the Top Speed ( V-MAX) is limited by engine power, tyre-typ, drag coefficient, outside temperature, road condition and on . Hi-Speed means high engine rpm. at 130km/h the engine runns at 4200 u/min. the Pinz is not made for high-speed highway use, the comfort driving speed is at round 120km/h. All over this speed the hole Vehice crys, the noises are groving up awfull at uppering each higher speed, the themeratures in all gears and Steering groving enormos and the driving stability is ultra sensible- after a few kilometers you slow down your-own , because you are high concetrated at holding the car in line ( side wind blast, wind blast from faster cars or passing slower trucks), swimming driving, high unknown noises, tunnel view and sweeting fingers.

there are no differents at high rpm between auto and mechanic gearbox because the autobox has a converter lockup clutch.
I dont see what the diference in engine would make if both engines have a limit to 4500 rpms....dousnt matter of one has 100 hp and the other 200 hp.....4500rpm is and always will be 4500 rpms ?
My 716k dous 115 km/ h flat out...nothing more ....engine hits the 4500 rpms with this speed ( yes it screams Like a witch on a firepile :roll: ) .......to me That high rpm needs to come down to lets say 3500 rpm ( the torq range is there? ) but no need for the speed to go up....i know it will never be a Porsche.
Thats why i was thinking That there woud be a diference in gearing....seems this is not the case.

About the high noise...where dous this come from? Driven a 710m and a 710k for years and to me they both where much quiter Than the 716........ :cry:

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Lorenz
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Re: achse?

Beitrag von Lorenz » Mo Jun 17, 2019 8:21

Do you messure your speed with a GPS Unit?
What tire size do you drive?
What kind of Transferbox? ZF Number?

Steyr-Daimler-Puch Crack
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V-MAX

Beitrag von Steyr-Daimler-Puch Crack » Mo Jun 17, 2019 12:48

@hd_70

there are many kind of posibilitys why your TD goes only v-max 115km/h.


which axle ratio type 37/13 =2.846 or 45/16 =2.812 ?

2 gearbox ratio type ? on case shield 4104 003 XXX

tyre diameter direct not only tyre datas ( there are different diameters/roll-metere on running-surface from Brand to Brand differnt! ) ?

there was different Injection Pumps available at Factory from speed limit range 4000 up to 5200 rpm !

how is the engine compession pressure ?? low compression >low drive agility and top speed !

Autobox lockup cluch slip?

did all gearboxes and wheeldrives running free and nois-damped ? also in wheelfree position ?

are all brake caliper free (shaking play) and make all pads free-play ?

the parking break free open and no heat at back case by longer driving ?

axle position ( distance wheel center to Wheelcenter, left to right) and track wide front right ?

speedometer ok / reference controll by GPS (or other car, side by side) !



Thread-Question: for lowering the engine rpm at high speed > put higher Wheel on it ; torq is engine type different, round 180NM

hd_70
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Re: achse?

Beitrag von hd_70 » Mo Jun 17, 2019 16:03

Many questions.....gives many answers...

Its a 716 k civillian type with the automatic gearbox ZF 4 HP 22.
Hi/ lo case number : 4104003060 ( 294) 10-87
I have the bf goodrich 255-85/ R16 on it .
Gps gives 70 km/u then my tacho reeds +- 67/ 68 km/u ..so do the speed controle beside the road :roll:
Axle ratio type ...dont know but they are the original ones, dous this mean That there is a diference in ratio concerning the axles/
final Wheel drive .... ( portals?)
Has new brake discs and blockes , parking brake is free....
I dont feel anything wrong with shifting the gears...1 2 3 and 4 all go and so dous the reverse, kickdown response is
there when you need it ....

Its Like it could use a extra gear....it has plenty of power ,dousnt even smoke... but its Like after the fourth gear you wait for it to
schift ones more in to a Fifth gear...
Maybe i need to put a extra overdriveunit behind the automatic gearbox :wink:

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Lorenz
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Re: achse?

Beitrag von Lorenz » Mo Jun 17, 2019 16:15

If you go fullspeed for example 10 minutes - where is your temperature than? (beginning of green, mid green, end green?)

hd_70
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Re: achse?

Beitrag von hd_70 » Mo Jun 17, 2019 16:30

Lorenz hat geschrieben:
Mo Jun 17, 2019 16:15
If you go fullspeed for example 10 minutes - where is your temperature than? (beginning of green, mid green, end green?)
Mid green ....half an hour at 110 km/u.....full 4500rpms. :wait:
And That is 1000 Rpms to much in my opinion :smoke:

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Lorenz
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Re: achse?

Beitrag von Lorenz » Mo Jun 17, 2019 19:37

Is your 4HP22 is shifting into 4 th gear anyway?

Steyr-Daimler-Puch Crack
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Re: achse?

Beitrag von Steyr-Daimler-Puch Crack » Mo Jun 17, 2019 20:50

the autobox has to lockup the overflow clutch only at 4.th gear, you will hear a "knock" noise after a few hundred meters or max. 40 sec at full pull ( kickdown not nessasary)- constante drive on flate highway. At the point of this insert noise, the engine rpm has a little go down because only then the converter is full closed without any slipping- if there is only a noise without any rpm changes the converter linings are down no closed conecting between pump wings and inputshaft wings. The linings of this clutch are inside the converter and can´t be change without cutting into pieces. If there is no noise the shifter plate had to remove , dismanted and cleaned. There is also a bullet in the shifter box at gasget which often worn out and the sealing seat is damaged.

hd_70
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Re: achse?

Beitrag von hd_70 » Mo Jun 17, 2019 21:11

Well....i was thinking That the automatic could have something to do with it....i mean all That comes after it seems normal.
I know That you can upgrade the zf 4 hp 22 with parts of a zf 4 hp 24 ....but yes this could be the one to investigate.


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